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	<title>Comments on: Go West Young Man- Part II</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/christian-faith/go-west-young-man-part-ii/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/christian-faith/go-west-young-man-part-ii</link>
	<description>Looking at Faith from a Fresh Perspective</description>
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		<title>By: kurt</title>
		<link>http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/christian-faith/go-west-young-man-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/?p=49#comment-153</guid>
		<description>Brenda- you clearly want to pick a fight.  I will not give you that satisfaction.  The flip side of the belief is that I believe an abused husband should stay in the relationship as well.

I am sorry if a clear presentation of truth is so troubling for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brenda- you clearly want to pick a fight.  I will not give you that satisfaction.  The flip side of the belief is that I believe an abused husband should stay in the relationship as well.</p>
<p>I am sorry if a clear presentation of truth is so troubling for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Brenda</title>
		<link>http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/christian-faith/go-west-young-man-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>Brenda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/?p=49#comment-152</guid>
		<description>Well i&#039;m sure glad i&#039;m not married to you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well i&#8217;m sure glad i&#8217;m not married to you!</p>
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		<title>By: kurt</title>
		<link>http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/christian-faith/go-west-young-man-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/?p=49#comment-151</guid>
		<description>@all


First and foremost, I want make certain that I am crystal clear.  A husband who abuses his wife is wrong.  I never have and never will advocate any person abusing another.  I know that was not the point of many here, but some seemed to be heading that direction with their thoughts, so I wanted to keep clarity at the forefront of this discussion.

Now on to the topic at hand.  To understand this, I think it would help to understand a Christians purpose on earth.  Our purpose can be summed up in three statements, each of which hinges on the next.

We are to Love God
because of our Love for God, 
We are to Love Others
because of our Love for Others and our Love for God,
We are to be working to influence Others toward Loving God more.


With that in mind, even when we are in an abusive relationship, spouse or otherwise, we are to do all we can to help that person see God&#039;s love more.

The two greatest examples of this come from the Bible.  I know many of you look at the Bible as merely myth, but if one is looking to see how a Christian should live, then the Bible would be the natural source material.

The first example is Jesus.  When he was abused, he did not resist, he did not pull away, no he stayed, engaged, and loved.  Even to the loss of his life.

Paul is another example.  His personal safety was not a litmus test in whether or not he should proceed with his mission for God, but safety was actually disregarded for the sake of sharing God&#039;s love.

So based on this, I think a Christian woman should have the goal of showing a husband love regardless of her personal safety. 

That being said, as a Christian would I condemn or look down on a woman who escaped from an abusive husband?

Never!  That is between her and God.

I hope that helps clarify some things, feel free to respond.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@all</p>
<p>First and foremost, I want make certain that I am crystal clear.  A husband who abuses his wife is wrong.  I never have and never will advocate any person abusing another.  I know that was not the point of many here, but some seemed to be heading that direction with their thoughts, so I wanted to keep clarity at the forefront of this discussion.</p>
<p>Now on to the topic at hand.  To understand this, I think it would help to understand a Christians purpose on earth.  Our purpose can be summed up in three statements, each of which hinges on the next.</p>
<p>We are to Love God<br />
because of our Love for God,<br />
We are to Love Others<br />
because of our Love for Others and our Love for God,<br />
We are to be working to influence Others toward Loving God more.</p>
<p>With that in mind, even when we are in an abusive relationship, spouse or otherwise, we are to do all we can to help that person see God&#8217;s love more.</p>
<p>The two greatest examples of this come from the Bible.  I know many of you look at the Bible as merely myth, but if one is looking to see how a Christian should live, then the Bible would be the natural source material.</p>
<p>The first example is Jesus.  When he was abused, he did not resist, he did not pull away, no he stayed, engaged, and loved.  Even to the loss of his life.</p>
<p>Paul is another example.  His personal safety was not a litmus test in whether or not he should proceed with his mission for God, but safety was actually disregarded for the sake of sharing God&#8217;s love.</p>
<p>So based on this, I think a Christian woman should have the goal of showing a husband love regardless of her personal safety. </p>
<p>That being said, as a Christian would I condemn or look down on a woman who escaped from an abusive husband?</p>
<p>Never!  That is between her and God.</p>
<p>I hope that helps clarify some things, feel free to respond.</p>
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		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/christian-faith/go-west-young-man-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 21:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/?p=49#comment-150</guid>
		<description>Brenda-would you be able to explain to me what part of a husband loving his wife as Christ loved the church and a wife&#039;s response of respect and submission to that love given her is &quot;messed up crap&quot;? It is us (sinners saved by His grace) that have messed it all up. He created marriage to be a beautiful loving relationship and He even gave us instructions on how to keep it that way. I am thankful for the instructions part. If we would just follow the Scriptures (yet again) we would not see the abuse and negative side in the wourd submission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brenda-would you be able to explain to me what part of a husband loving his wife as Christ loved the church and a wife&#8217;s response of respect and submission to that love given her is &#8220;messed up crap&#8221;? It is us (sinners saved by His grace) that have messed it all up. He created marriage to be a beautiful loving relationship and He even gave us instructions on how to keep it that way. I am thankful for the instructions part. If we would just follow the Scriptures (yet again) we would not see the abuse and negative side in the wourd submission.</p>
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		<title>By: Brenda</title>
		<link>http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/christian-faith/go-west-young-man-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>Brenda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/?p=49#comment-149</guid>
		<description>this is seriously some of the most messed up crap i&#039;ve read in a while. you are the kind of people that make me question my faith. it is because of christians like you all that i hate to consider myself one and start to lean towards not believing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is seriously some of the most messed up crap i&#8217;ve read in a while. you are the kind of people that make me question my faith. it is because of christians like you all that i hate to consider myself one and start to lean towards not believing.</p>
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		<title>By: Debbie</title>
		<link>http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/christian-faith/go-west-young-man-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>Debbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 06:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/?p=49#comment-148</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure other people like Kurt and Joe can delve better into the whole submissiveness issue than I can.  However, I do want to say to those who have taken offense to it that I was once in your boat.  I was dating a Christian who felt that when the Bible said &quot;submit&quot; that meant that he was the head of our relationship, had complete control, and whatever he wanted was right.  However, just like what Nicole mentioned about how it says right after that the husbands must love their wives as Christ loved the church, we need not forget that there are not only commands to the wives.  I happily submit to fiance because I know that he loves me like Christ loves the church.  That&#039;s such a big responsibility for him and I know he doesn&#039;t take that lightly.  He wouldn&#039;t try to force me into anything or make all decisions without my input.  He wouldn&#039;t ever place his needs above mine.  He never has and I know he never will.  God didn&#039;t call husbands to be dictators.  He called them to love their wives, to respect them, to treat them like Christ treated the church...and when that happens, wives don&#039;t look at submissiveness as degrading.  It&#039;s a way of showing our husbands that we trust them, that we know that they will seek guidance from God and older/wiser Christian men, that they will listen to us, love us, provide for us, and respect us.  Sadly, there are Christian men out there who have twisted this whole part of God&#039;s Word to the point where the rest of the world (and other Christians) see it as degrading and like a dictatorship.  Maybe I&#039;m not explaining this the best way but I just want people to know that it&#039;s not how they&#039;re seeing it.  I hope that helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure other people like Kurt and Joe can delve better into the whole submissiveness issue than I can.  However, I do want to say to those who have taken offense to it that I was once in your boat.  I was dating a Christian who felt that when the Bible said &#8220;submit&#8221; that meant that he was the head of our relationship, had complete control, and whatever he wanted was right.  However, just like what Nicole mentioned about how it says right after that the husbands must love their wives as Christ loved the church, we need not forget that there are not only commands to the wives.  I happily submit to fiance because I know that he loves me like Christ loves the church.  That&#8217;s such a big responsibility for him and I know he doesn&#8217;t take that lightly.  He wouldn&#8217;t try to force me into anything or make all decisions without my input.  He wouldn&#8217;t ever place his needs above mine.  He never has and I know he never will.  God didn&#8217;t call husbands to be dictators.  He called them to love their wives, to respect them, to treat them like Christ treated the church&#8230;and when that happens, wives don&#8217;t look at submissiveness as degrading.  It&#8217;s a way of showing our husbands that we trust them, that we know that they will seek guidance from God and older/wiser Christian men, that they will listen to us, love us, provide for us, and respect us.  Sadly, there are Christian men out there who have twisted this whole part of God&#8217;s Word to the point where the rest of the world (and other Christians) see it as degrading and like a dictatorship.  Maybe I&#8217;m not explaining this the best way but I just want people to know that it&#8217;s not how they&#8217;re seeing it.  I hope that helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/christian-faith/go-west-young-man-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-147</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 06:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/?p=49#comment-147</guid>
		<description>the Biblical form of a marriage IS heterosexual, always has been, always will

yoyo: I think you need to understand that not all slavery back in Biblical times was the kind of slavery we have had here in America.  Please take the time to research this and you&#039;ll find that slaves were a lot of times just employees.  Yes, they were technically &quot;owned&quot; but usually treated as one of the family, not beaten up and lynched.  The way it applies to us today is that we need to be treating our bosses with respect.  That&#039;s how it has something positive for us today.

VJ: I take extreme offense to you saying my God is sick and sadistic.  I&#039;m not sure where you get that from?  I know you can twist what submission means into saying that wives must obey their husbands, but in a healthy relationship that&#039;s now how it works.  The wife&#039;s opinion matter so much that the husband should always be taking his wife&#039;s opinion into account.  Jesus (whether you believe it or not) died on the cross for us... and that&#039;s what a husband should do.. lay down his life, his desires, his motives, his needs... for his wife.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the Biblical form of a marriage IS heterosexual, always has been, always will</p>
<p>yoyo: I think you need to understand that not all slavery back in Biblical times was the kind of slavery we have had here in America.  Please take the time to research this and you&#8217;ll find that slaves were a lot of times just employees.  Yes, they were technically &#8220;owned&#8221; but usually treated as one of the family, not beaten up and lynched.  The way it applies to us today is that we need to be treating our bosses with respect.  That&#8217;s how it has something positive for us today.</p>
<p>VJ: I take extreme offense to you saying my God is sick and sadistic.  I&#8217;m not sure where you get that from?  I know you can twist what submission means into saying that wives must obey their husbands, but in a healthy relationship that&#8217;s now how it works.  The wife&#8217;s opinion matter so much that the husband should always be taking his wife&#8217;s opinion into account.  Jesus (whether you believe it or not) died on the cross for us&#8230; and that&#8217;s what a husband should do.. lay down his life, his desires, his motives, his needs&#8230; for his wife.</p>
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		<title>By: yoyo</title>
		<link>http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/christian-faith/go-west-young-man-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>yoyo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 04:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/?p=49#comment-146</guid>
		<description>sorry meant OF christianity, not on christianity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry meant OF christianity, not on christianity.</p>
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		<title>By: yoyo</title>
		<link>http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/christian-faith/go-west-young-man-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>yoyo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 04:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/?p=49#comment-145</guid>
		<description>Yet another reason to try and get rid of the nefarious influence on christianity on modern American life. Why would a set of self serving paradigms written for slave owning misogynous desert dwelling males  have anything positive for us today? Apologists trying to argue that submit means mutual respect are just fooling themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yet another reason to try and get rid of the nefarious influence on christianity on modern American life. Why would a set of self serving paradigms written for slave owning misogynous desert dwelling males  have anything positive for us today? Apologists trying to argue that submit means mutual respect are just fooling themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Brenda</title>
		<link>http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/christian-faith/go-west-young-man-part-ii/comment-page-1#comment-144</link>
		<dc:creator>Brenda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 00:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.increasingfaithblog.com/?p=49#comment-144</guid>
		<description>And again you are all assuming these relationships are heterosexual... just saying</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And again you are all assuming these relationships are heterosexual&#8230; just saying</p>
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